I've got 2 potential AI projects - Giev Feedback plz

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Myk
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I've got 2 potential AI projects - Giev Feedback plz

Postby Myk » Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:42 pm

Idea #1: Bloodbath AI - For non-standard maps.

The thought behind this would be to make an AI that's really aggressive early on, and sort of lives in a 1 base economy for quite a while.
Why: Because I like to goof around on non-standard maps and my other pro-AI just do really stupid things and die on them.
What:
Building limit is about 4.
Terran - they could get 2 rax min, 4 rax max, and 1-2 factories for Siege Tanks before attacking/expanding.
Expansions can get things like a starport or more barracks, etc.

Zerg will be really simple. Hydralisk/Zergling floods, eventual Ultralisks will show up to help.
2-3 Hatch main, 2 hatch expansions, etc.

Protoss will go up to 3 gateways. I don't think they can really support 4, but we'll see. Zealot/Goon/Archon eventual carriers or arbiters, etc.

Really simple unit production loops will be used along with send_suicide(0) for attacks, for simplicity.

Cheating + Island scripts will be included.



Idea #2: Entropy AI

I had an idea to make an AI based around random_jump and notowns_jump to make it active in a random and erratic manner.
This would likely be a cheating AI, otherwise it'll just punish itself too much to be any sort of challenge when it does something silly like rush for Ultralisks on 1 base or expand 5 times before it gets a spawning pool.

I'm not sure about how playable this would be, but it seemed like something fun to build just for kicks.



Idea #3: Generic Spell Helper Patch

This isn't much of an AI mod, but I thought it might be neat to sort of help the AI by giving them much more mana, so they'd get more out of their high templar and other spell casting units. I have no idea if that even works, but it might be interesting to plug into Unleaded, AccelTerran or AccelZerg, since they use quite a bit of spellcasters.
Jonstone
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Postby Jonstone » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:44 pm

Sounds like fun. I like all of your scripts so I would try it out.

Idea #1 seems like it has already been done = CounterZerg - Ashara Protoss + Zerg - Baja Terran? early aggression (7rax b.o can't get more aggressive than that), simple unit production loops. 2 rax + 1 factory before expanding blah blah blah. Ashara 6 pool and fast DT's is aggression! What would you do to make your script different?

Entropy AI? :) Like EntropyIV? The entropyze button on the BWAILauncher is my favorite mod! I love EntropyAI.

Spellcaster mana can only be set at 257max afik. You will have to get more creative than that, but I have no idea what to suggest.
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Archon_Wing
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Postby Archon_Wing » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:12 pm

#1 Probaly just BBS, 9/9 gates, and 9 pools, crank out as any units as possible. The difference between this build and the other cheese ones out there is that it doesn't really aim to kill the enemy in the first attack. You would want an attack by the 5 minute mark.

The three AIs Jonstone mentioned would be a nice basis but are incredibly weak on maps like Blood Bath save for Baja T so would need that modified BO.
1/2 hatch lurker would be pretty funny, but I was never able to do it

#2 Template T/Rocky T attempted something like that, but you'd probably aim for something more complex.
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:48 pm

[quote name='Jonstone' post='9476' date='Mar 9 2010, 02:44 PM']Sounds like fun. I like all of your scripts so I would try it out.

Idea #1 seems like it has already been done = CounterZerg - Ashara Protoss + Zerg - Baja Terran? early aggression (7rax b.o can't get more aggressive than that), simple unit production loops. 2 rax + 1 factory before expanding blah blah blah. Ashara 6 pool and fast DT's is aggression! What would you do to make your script different?

Entropy AI? :) Like EntropyIV? The entropyze button on the BWAILauncher is my favorite mod! I love EntropyAI.

Spellcaster mana can only be set at 257max afik. You will have to get more creative than that, but I have no idea what to suggest.[/quote]

Those scripts are really good as a reference, but I think they're not quite what I want. If they were, I'd just use those. Haha...

I don't think I'll get around to the Entropy one. Already I can tell that if it wasn't AccelZerg2 everyone would hate it.

Can't you set individual spells to different mana? Maybe I'll check out plugins to alter that attribute, if I do try that.

[quote name='Archon_Wing' post='9481' date='Mar 9 2010, 03:12 PM']#1 Probaly just BBS, 9/9 gates, and 9 pools, crank out as any units as possible. The difference between this build and the other cheese ones out there is that it doesn't really aim to kill the enemy in the first attack. You would want an attack by the 5 minute mark.

The three AIs Jonstone mentioned would be a nice basis but are incredibly weak on maps like Blood Bath save for Baja T so would need that modified BO.
1/2 hatch lurker would be pretty funny, but I was never able to do it

#2 Template T/Rocky T attempted something like that, but you'd probably aim for something more complex.[/quote]

Yeah, I'll probably mix those builds in along with some slightly more mellow things.

I've even got a little pack of maps to bundle it with, if I get that far.
#2 Template T/Rocky T attempted something like that, but you'd probably aim for something more complex.

Yeah, I want something slightly different. :)
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:07 am

[quote name='bajadulce' post='9484' date='Mar 9 2010, 07:24 PM']What kind of non-standard maps are you talking about? FMP? minimaps like BloodBath? MoneyMaps like BGH? And it sounds like you are wanting to make a cheating Pro-AI? We could use more of these that's for sure.[/quote]

I would like it for just mini-maps or any other map that doesn't really support the fast expansion styles that are common. The default is actually pretty good at this, since it's does a lot of 1 base style rushes, like the first TvZ one with the marine/medic force or even the rush from the new Raynor Terran is really nice. The Protoss 12 zealot rush thing has always been fun to play against.
It would probably also work for some regular BGH play.

I would very much like to at least attempt a cheating pro-AI. If I could combine that with my energy boost idea I think it could end up pretty challenging, if I don't make it overkill. I've got some other ideas that I haven't been able to implement in the non-cheating scripts that would fit well in a cheating environment.

[quote name='bajadulce']I'd like to see something new rather than another AI script at this point to be honest, but you guys have put out some really great stuff (Ashara, Avance, AW, Myk, JH, Equalizer, Mesk, Panda, Racine... wow!). I'm sure there is still plenty that can always be tweaked and improved on, and there always seems to be another great addition just when everything seems dead.[/quote]

Yeah, I know. I figured someone would eventually tell me to give it a rest, even if indirectly. :) I'm still going, though.

[quote name='bajadulce']Here's some alternative ideas to toss around tho if you're looking for something new to explore:
  • I really like the idea of a hero mod (Reverse AO). You the player control powerful heros vs. hordes and hordes of cheap AI and/or to be used with the BWAI Launcher Xtreme scripts.
  • Maybe a fun DeathMatch setup like an improvement of ZBath2 etc. That might be a fun twist.
  • Or something like PEAI. A high tech comp opponent with access to all the spellcasters.
  • BlizzHard = creative idea to expand on. A little dull, but hey some ppl really like campaigns.
  • UMS AI mod like BWAI1.0 and Racine's map. There's just no limit to all the fun stuff that can be done here. Tho the UMS AI is a real bitch for me for some reason. Never could figure how to get past that wheel of death/moondance thing. Maybe Racine's map/AI holds the key? dunno.
[/quote]

The main thing that stops me form doing a lot of things right now is that I either lack enough idea of detail for a TC or the time, or both. I can put big dents in an AI script project in a weekend. Not so much with a real mod, I've found.

I'd like to go through BlizzHard and modify the maps and AI scripts. I like playing through the campaigns. The story is cool, but the combat seems lacking. You barely get any income and Blizzhard seemingly tilts that further towards the computer having much more than you.
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:47 am

[quote name='bajadulce' post='9490' date='Mar 10 2010, 10:32 AM']I especially like the high-tech spellcasting computer (PEAI without the "modded" units). I could offer to team up and help with the modding, if you'd like to try something like this. Wouldn't take very long to get this mod grafted + all the necessary .dat and string changes.[/quote]

Well, what are your ideas about this?

I sort of disliked the idea of UMS AI. Mostly because you have to deal with the map AND the patcher. It looks like you can do a lot of neat stuff with it, just from checking it out from the PEAI stuff you've done.

One thing that interested me was that there's a trigger action for setting energy on certain units to a specified percentage. You could ping the map and bump energy up to a full or half or whatever, for the computer.
Even setting the computer owned spellcasters to having the *hero* attribute set would be a nice addition.
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:33 am

I got a small amount of work done on my little AI project. The idea being to create something that'll run on any map, mini, Bloodbath, BGH or even the included Blizzard ones. It'll focus on a more solid army compositions with fewer special units.

I picked Terran first, because once I get those sort of worked out to a degree it's easier to judge how good the other two races will be.
I've got some nice cheese builds setup so far:

BBS @ 8 supply All in!
This gets a fair amount of marines out pretty early.

BBSB! @ 9 supply Another all in!
This is a 3rax marine push. It's actually pretty deadly against some of the tournament AI that 12 hatch and don't defend well enough.

2rax + academy
I'm going to practically pull this from Raynor. 10 marine + medic + firebat is pretty solid.

As far as standard Barracks timing goes, Raynor pulls off the 7rax pretty convincingly, so I want to play around with that a little more. I'll likely test with various spawning pool timings along with Equalizer's 4 pool pressure AI.

As far as Zerg and Protoss goes, I'm open to any suggestions.
And don't worry; I've already covered the 4 pool and the 6 gateway rushes. ;)


One thing that does worry me, is that these won't work on any random Blizzard made junk due to them having like 6 minerals in the main. I mean, not that anyone would likely play one of them, but it's something I was thinking about.

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