TaranokAI v1.71 (P) Updated: 1/6/13

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Taranok
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Postby Taranok » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:56 am

v1.6 uploaded!

If you study it, you'll get so confused :lol:. There's so much lines that have been commented out. (if you add # at the beginning of a line, anything in the line will not be run.) Well hopefully that's how it works :P.

Turns out if you have a race_jump when there is no enemy, the AI just crashes (at least for me it did). I don't know if that ever takes effect in a real game, where you win when the game ends, but whatever.

This AI is almost mostly built around AIvsAI now as thats the easiest way of getting feedback. It's actually been winning a lot of more of its games. I might post its record up later.
krasi0
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Postby krasi0 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:33 pm

Maybe once Heinermann completes the BWAIScriptEmulator in BWAPI, at least the micro disadvantages will be dealt with.
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Taranok
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Postby Taranok » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:35 am

If he does decide to do it, probably the most important would be lurkers, as that generally tends to be a key unit of ZvT and especially ZvP. Vulture micro could potentially be implemented(?), but a lot of the BWAPI micro videos they don't seem to micro to well. Carrier micro? I'm not sure that I've seen any AI do carrier micro, but carriers just get to close to units in AI fights because the AI doesn't use the leash range.
krasi0
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Postby krasi0 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:15 am

Killerbot v3 does lurker micro. Undermind and Nova bot have some good vulture micro using PFs. Skynet uses carriers and tries to micro them maybe not as a pro player would.
BTW where can I find a working link to the latest ver of your bot. which race it plays is best vs Terran?
[quote name='Taranok' date='28 November 2012 - 05:35 AM' timestamp='1354073740' post='11252']
If he does decide to do it, probably the most important would be lurkers, as that generally tends to be a key unit of ZvT and especially ZvP. Vulture micro could potentially be implemented(?), but a lot of the BWAPI micro videos they don't seem to micro to well. Carrier micro? I'm not sure that I've seen any AI do carrier micro, but carriers just get to close to units in AI fights because the AI doesn't use the leash range.
[/quote]
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Taranok
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Postby Taranok » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:37 pm

To be honest I never produced much of a vT script because I just really didn't see a solution for it in BWAI. I think Myk saw the same thing and that's why he made his DT script. You can't beat a turtling Terran AI by attacking, and the AI doesn't really know how to stop/slow a push or do harassment, and so most games you see the Protoss AI getting swept away by one attack from a Terran AI. If you get lucky you can land some pretty good storm that kill a lot of marines, but that is unlikely, and Marine build so quickly it sometimes doesn't even matter.

There is one thing I guess could work, which is try an attack right before tanks/siege mode is out with the +1 armor. Once siege tanks are out, you're kinda screwed. My Ai does attack with +1 armor but that's too late, and I don't even know if I can squeeze the +1 armor upgrade any earlier.
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:23 pm

[quote name='Taranok' date='28 November 2012 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1354138653' post='11254']
To be honest I never produced much of a vT script because I just really didn't see a solution for it in BWAI. I think Myk saw the same thing and that's why he made his DT script. You can't beat a turtling Terran AI by attacking, and the AI doesn't really know how to stop/slow a push or do harassment, and so most games you see the Protoss AI getting swept away by one attack from a Terran AI. If you get lucky you can land some pretty good storm that kill a lot of marines, but that is unlikely, and Marine build so quickly it sometimes doesn't even matter.

There is one thing I guess could work, which is try an attack right before tanks/siege mode is out with the +1 armor. Once siege tanks are out, you're kinda screwed. My Ai does attack with +1 armor but that's too late, and I don't even know if I can squeeze the +1 armor upgrade any earlier.
[/quote]
Last night I tried out some ideas for surviving that first mid-game m+m rush. They all start off with 12 nexus followed by gateway, cybernetics core, gateway, as a base.
a. lots of zealots & dragoons
b. as [a] but with added reavers
c. as [a] but with a few DTs

[a] is the simplest, but also feels very fragile. If your units kinda clump up wrong or do something weird, they're not going to do much damage. Still, given enough gateways, most attacks can be stopped.
[B] is good to great. It's tough to make the build work, as you need Reavers to stick around for a minute before they start loading up scarabs. They're expensive and a lot of them get lost needlessly, but a few solid scarabs can tear a bio army to shreds.
[c] I didn't test a lot, but it seems as solid as any DT script (borderline cheesy?)

Eventually the mid-game rush gets beat, but then you start running into bigger, upgraded armies with a lot of siege tanks. [a] doesn't do so great, while [B] does a whole lot better).

And then some scripts, like Baja's, get Ghosts in the last stretch, which really takes the wind out of the Reavers and then you're left with a relatively inferior army. Oh yeah, and then they get cloak and hopefully you've got observers around.

The codes all hacked together, so I'll wait before posting it. I need to test a few more units, like the HT and Arbiter a bit more before I decide to include them or not.

What's the best way to upgrade against bio? Armor and then shields?
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Taranok
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Postby Taranok » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:11 pm

I think getting +armor is better since really the units never have time to recharge shields in battle. +1 armor affect 100 of your health, while shields affect 60 of your health, so in general armor is better. It's also cheaper as well. Probably after armor you can get shields.

Something to note though is that if a marine is being attacked by a zealot with no weapon upgrades, if the medic is healing the marine, then the Zealot will never kill the marine. The medic heal rate is just too fast.

The easiest way to stop M+M rush (at least that I found, this is what my AI does right now) is just build 3-4 cannons with some zealots. Cannons are better than dragoons vs M+M because Dragoons have explosion damage, so you only get something like 10-11 damage per shot (because Marines are light), while cannons do 20 damage no matter the type of unit. Using a reaver into expand is probably a bit safer, but definitely slower.

I wonder about FFE vs Terran? Lol, usually that's versus Zerg. I doubt it's too reliable since the AI doesn't really know how "sim city".

Dragoons are almost like 90% useless. It's just that once you build too many zealots the ones in the back spend too much time trying to find a position to attack, and so dragoons become slightly more effective.

You might need to fix the special symbols and stuff :P.

For option B, do you get any upgrades like reaver damage, and do you get shuttles?

If you use the new entropy.exe high templar storms can be more useful. Although I don't know how much you like it.

Reavers are likely the best choice. You can easily turtle through the middle game while getting upgrades, which probably puts you in a better spot for the later stages of the game, compared to the others.

Or you could just pick tiny maps like Blood Bath and then 2 Gate :P.
krasi0
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Postby krasi0 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:49 am

and how about vs a terran going mecha, like my bot? MMs is not that popular build vs Protoss anyway.
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:41 am

[quote name='Taranok' date='29 November 2012 - 03:11 PM' timestamp='1354230674' post='11256']
I think getting +armor is better since really the units never have time to recharge shields in battle. +1 armor affect 100 of your health, while shields affect 60 of your health, so in general armor is better. It's also cheaper as well. Probably after armor you can get shields.

Something to note though is that if a marine is being attacked by a zealot with no weapon upgrades, if the medic is healing the marine, then the Zealot will never kill the marine. The medic heal rate is just too fast.

The easiest way to stop M+M rush (at least that I found, this is what my AI does right now) is just build 3-4 cannons with some zealots. Cannons are better than dragoons vs M+M because Dragoons have explosion damage, so you only get something like 10-11 damage per shot (because Marines are light), while cannons do 20 damage no matter the type of unit. Using a reaver into expand is probably a bit safer, but definitely slower.

I wonder about FFE vs Terran? Lol, usually that's versus Zerg. I doubt it's too reliable since the AI doesn't really know how "sim city".

Dragoons are almost like 90% useless. It's just that once you build too many zealots the ones in the back spend too much time trying to find a position to attack, and so dragoons become slightly more effective.

You might need to fix the special symbols and stuff :P.

For option B, do you get any upgrades like reaver damage, and do you get shuttles?

If you use the new entropy.exe high templar storms can be more useful. Although I don't know how much you like it.

Reavers are likely the best choice. You can easily turtle through the middle game while getting upgrades, which probably puts you in a better spot for the later stages of the game, compared to the others.

Or you could just pick tiny maps like Blood Bath and then 2 Gate :P.
[/quote]
Somehow I've noticed the better performance of cannons vs. goons for a long time, but failed to notice that they use a different damage type.

I didn't upgrade any part of the reaver or even get shuttles. It's funny but, as slow as those crawl across the map, it ends up helping when the bio armies come across them and half of them get blown up by a scarab burst.

One script got a robotics facility at each expansion. The comp was always low on cash and the armies were smaller, but it had no problems with bio armies until the ghosts showed up. Or just write the script better so Terran never gets that far, hehe. :)

[quote name='krasi0' date='29 November 2012 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1354261765' post='11257']
and how about vs a terran going mecha, like my bot? MMs is not that popular build vs Protoss anyway.
[/quote]
If mech worked then we wouldn't play around with MM. It's really broken. Really, it's a surprise that the AI works at all. :P
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Taranok
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Postby Taranok » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:09 am

[quote name='Myk' date='30 November 2012 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1354333271' post='11258']

If mech worked then we wouldn't play around with MM. It's really broken. Really, it's a surprise that the AI works at all. :P
[/quote]

He's asking what you would do against a BWAPI Bot that plays Mech.

Regular protoss army composition with maybe faster Arbiters? I don't really know. I still haven't figured out how to get BWAPI to run anything other than ExampleAIModule.dll. Maybe mostly Zealots + High Templar + Arbiters?

I wonder if any Terran BWAPI AI's ever try to snipe High Templar, or focus fire tanks on Dragoons?

It would be cool if the AI could do something like cast DWeb on stuff so tanks and stuff won't fire... unfortunately it only casts it on units attacking air.

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