Hero Mod (Development)

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Myk
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Hero Mod (Development)

Postby Myk » Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:30 pm

I have been working on a mod in which you the player control heroes to help battle our Uber Insane AI's. Everything is subject to change and nothing is set in stone. Got some fun ideas? Discuss and let's see where this goes.

Basic Concept:
Players will control a limited # of heroes (supply costs greatly increased + costs) in order to better equip player to battle the Xtreme AI's found on this site/BWAI Launcher.
Derqua
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Postby Derqua » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:02 am

Any update on this?
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:39 am

[attachment=2785:HeroAI1.5.zip]

***
Added: Lurker, Guardian and Devourer unit morphs, but they're not perfect and need more work if they're going to stay.

The lurker is broken, which I think is a hardcoded issue? He's also got the wrong transform egg and wireframe.


***
Other ideas:

*Zerg and Protoss are getting run over by the insane scripts early on. Terran has access to a beefy bunker, Zerg and Protoss either need a beefy cannon/sunken type thing or some other type of edit that gives them enough oomph to live long enough to get their archon/high templar/whatever unit online.

*Zerg units are pretty wimpy or boring. Having a broken lurker and a puny mutalisk in T2 tech doesn't help this at all. Giving all the Zerg units the 2-in-1 edit might be something to try out as well.

*All races: How about letting upgrades go up to 5?
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:11 am

I've been working on this a bit more.

Here's some changes I've been playing around with:
Zerg:
2 units per egg, for most units. (Having the "swarm" effect is important for Zerg, I'm trying to keep that while not going overboard)
Slightly increased Sunken Colony HP. (...)
Can now train infested terran, kerrigan and duran from an Overmind.
Ultralisks are OP.
Spawn Broodling makes 6 broodlings that suck..

Protoss:
Carrier can now hold 14 interceptors. (Gotta work on this one...)
Fixed the DT button

Terran:
Bunker HP tweak
Added Vulture Speed button back (Can't figure out where to enable this be default)[Shuttle has the same issue, as might the Scout]
SarahK can now shoot nukes.
Increased medic heal rate


All Races:
Removed supply cost of worker units
Greatly increased mana regen
Increased mining rate to 12

### Things to do ###
Adjust Protoss unit costs, they cost too much. It feels like it takes a long time to make anything with protoss, since all of the units cost a truckload of minerals and gas.

Zerg Supply, units are too expensive in supply cost and you can't make enough of them. Zerg got a huge boost from the mineral trigger at the start of the game, their income is out of control by the time you get a second expansion. ... and then they can't spend it because just a few units maxes out the limit.

I might add "Detector" to the queen.

Terran units... the costs are okay. I want free nukes.

Strings... Yeah... Let's do this last. :D


### feedback ###
I played a few games with a friend of mine against my HPM Zerg and the O. Hammer Protoss and we managed to beat it quite a few times in a 2v1. 2v2 is impossible. This tells me that I'm doing okay, though, I'm not sure if I could take one of them 1v1 just yet, I'll try that a bit later.



I'm trying to "overpower" the caster/support units enough that people will pick them over the straight damage units. Increasing the mana regen has gone a long way towards this, but this will do funny things to the AI casters - they'll go nuts casting spells.


Anyways, I'm going to go back to tinkering with stuff.
Undermind3k
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Postby Undermind3k » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:19 pm

why am i just now finding this? I think this is a great idea and has a lot of potential. I would make the new player units super units however with new tricked out weapons and effects rather than just heros. I just posted in STF so something like those units. ;) [hint] the PEAI trick of voting for different AI's would be nice to include [/hint]

I played a few games with a friend of mine against my HPM Zerg and the O. Hammer Protoss and we managed to beat it quite a few times in a 2v1. 2v2 is impossible. This tells me that I'm doing okay, though, I'm not sure if I could take one of them 1v1 just yet, I'll try that a bit later.

if you can beat O.Hammer even 2v1, i would agree you are doing something right with mod! gonna try this soon.
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:10 am

[quote name='Undermind3K' date='14 June 2011 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1308093586' post='10223']
why am i just now finding this? I think this is a great idea and has a lot of potential. I would make the new player units super units however with new tricked out weapons and effects rather than just heros. I just posted in STF so something like those units. ;) [hint] the PEAI trick of voting for different AI's would be nice to include [/hint]

I played a few games with a friend of mine against my HPM Zerg and the O. Hammer Protoss and we managed to beat it quite a few times in a 2v1. 2v2 is impossible. This tells me that I'm doing okay, though, I'm not sure if I could take one of them 1v1 just yet, I'll try that a bit later.

if you can beat O.Hammer even 2v1, i would agree you are doing something right with mod! gonna try this soon.
[/quote]
Hi, and thanks for your interest. PEAI has some really cool tricks under the hood that I might mirror whenever I get that far. The AI selection trick is pretty nifty.

As far as this mod goes: I'm not very good at just designing "new tricked out weapons and effects" so, for lack of want to list more reasons, that's why the mod sort of stalled for a while. It's sort of the missing element, IMO, to what would push this mod from "killing lesser units with greater units" to "stomping lesser units with hero units that all have powerful and cool effects".

I'm not very familiar with the ins and outs of the iscript, but it's something that I'm going to have to learn if I want to continue working on this project. If I can't, then I'll just have to post it here and walk away until someone more capable comes along.

If you've got any ideas for units, I'd gladly try to implement them. Just keep in mind that because this mod uses so many units already that it's a little short on having tons of weapon slots leftover to give every single unit a spell. =/
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Hercanic
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Postby Hercanic » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:35 pm

You might want to check out Ultimate Doom, by BSTRhino, for ideas. He released all his iscripts, too.

Here's a replay of me in my first match vs 2 AIs in a FFA. I used Black Sheep Wall, but nothing more.

[attachment=2842:HeroMod1.5_Herc001.rep]
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:44 pm

[quote name='Hercanic' date='15 June 2011 - 06:35 AM' timestamp='1308144904' post='10226']
You might want to check out Ultimate Doom, by BSTRhino, for ideas. He released all his iscripts, too.

Here's a replay of me in my first match vs 2 AIs in a FFA. I used Black Sheep Wall, but nothing more.

[attachment=2842:HeroMod1.5_Herc001.rep]
[/quote]

I think you could handle a tougher AI than whatever default is in the 1.5 version. :cool:
That's my fault for being so slow to upload anything, but at the same time I don't want to just uploading 90 different versions where I add a few things in each one.

So, thanks for checking it out. I wish it was more entertaining.


...back to playing with iscripts.
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Myk
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Postby Myk » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:55 pm

I've got a unit and a building that both use a Lurker style attack. The unit works fine, but the building seems to have some sort of range issue. It will attempt to attack something that's just at the very edge of it's max range, and continually do this.

I can't figure it out.

Edit 1: Apparently, it's because I need the building to be able to turn, just like the unit. And I have no idea how to do this. >_>

Edit 2: Nope, still broke. This happens on the southern side of the building. I can put a unit right outside of the weapon range (supposedly 6) and it's still within range to attack (doesn't say anything about unable to attack, etc).

Edit 3: Could the weapon be spawning somewhere other than the center of the building? :(
Can't spend forever on a silly building, lots more to do...

Edit 4: I went looking for a way to morph my Hunter Killers into Lurkers using the Lurker Egg, but this post http://www.staredit.net/topic/14377/#309166 seems to suggest that it can't be done without magic pixie dust.

Edit 4a: I tried to rip the triggers out of ZBath to use the GasPerKill mechanism. Problem is, I can't seem to simplify and reimplement them so they give money at the 00:00 countdown mark, but it works just fine if I set it to trigger at 00:01. I don't think I'll end up using it, anyways, just too much money for the way this works right now.

Edit 5: I've got an interesting problem now: You can actually rush the insane AI and win. This seems to be more of a problem on FPM than BGH.
Options: a) make the units train slower; :cool: ignore it, if you want to push you abilities, add more comps.
There are some other workarounds: traditional training buildings for the Zerg (no way); faster AI unit training (possibility). I was trying to work around the programmed behavior of the already built scripts, so I'm hesitant to do things that really screw with those in strange ways.

Edit 6:
-Played a 2v2 (P/T) tonight. It took a few tries, but we finally managed to beat down the AI. It went sort of like: Bunker rush Terran for an easy win; Lose my base to Zerg, rebuild in friend's main; rush the AI in between one it its attack cycles and snipe the tech buildings for the win! If I set the Comp units to take the old supply amounts, I think it will be beatable by a single player.

-Protoss AI with 6-8 Arbiters is a bit too much here. When you need so few units to win battles, more than one Stasis is just a game-ender.

-Overmind defense building is great. The shorter range means that it only grinds up melee units. High health, so it soaks up tons of damage (5 armor, 5k hp: beef). I think I'll let it be built after the Spawning Pool, but I haven't thought about the building costs yet (it was free and built instantly in our game, but it could have taken a while to build and been just fine).
One of the benefits of this building is that it lets you get away from your base so you can actually go attack instead of just turtle the whole time. I'm really thinking about implementing something similar for Terran and maybe Protoss, even if it's just improved Turret/Cannons with some bigger spacing so you can't just cram 50 of them on a screen. No idea how to make the placement box bigger and have the photon cannon centered... hrmm.

-I've given most units 5 Armor (4 for Protoss, because of shields) and about double the HP, double the cost, and I might try out doubling the build time.

-Interesting supply problem: Except for mining units and a few shared units (Lurker/Medic/Devourer), Player units cost about +9 their original values. Maybe going over those and making them a little more sane (SV costs 15?!). There doesn't seem to be a reason behind how a lot of them are set, so I must have just guessed. :P

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