Entropy III v1.0 RC4 (Updated 2/19/10)

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JH24
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Postby JH24 » Sun May 24, 2009 8:02 pm

Thanks for showing the screenshots! It's always very fun to look at them. It's cool to see my AI appeared as well. :)
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Archon_Wing
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Postby Archon_Wing » Mon May 25, 2009 4:20 am

Baja and I played a 2v3 ^^, but I only had time for one, will play more in the future.

Unforunately, the replay is not very intresting as the zerg AI (most likely counterzerg) broke after I destroyed its spawning pool. :o The terran went infantry which was quickly defeated by mech in addition to their lack of turrets made dt harass easy and the Protoss was the only real threat, but they were taken out after a combined attack.

Fun still, I may have to pick a diffrent map though.
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JH24
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Postby JH24 » Mon May 25, 2009 5:33 pm

That was very enjoyable to watch. Looks like a lot of fun! :)


I was trying to see if one of the AI's were perhaps mine. The Terran/Zerg could have been mine, but it's difficult to tell. I thought my script had a detection loop regarding the Terran. I have to check.


Thanks for uploading, I definitely look forward to see more fun games in the future. ^^
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JH24
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Postby JH24 » Mon May 25, 2009 8:48 pm

Archon_Wing, I don't have enough time to see how converting my AI scripts works in PyMS. Is it alright if I send you the converted scripts tomorrow? If you wish, you could also use the 0.8a version I uploaded in my topic.



I'm really sorry for causing extra trouble with this. :(
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Archon_Wing
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Postby Archon_Wing » Mon May 25, 2009 10:46 pm

That is ok, but for the most part the next upload will be final, so make sure you really want the ai the way you want it to be. Best to run a few ai vs ai reps.

I will wait a while before adding your newest version, in case you find something else to add. Considering the number of oddities that have shown up over my many "final" releases, it's bound to happen.
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JH24
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Postby JH24 » Tue May 26, 2009 4:44 pm

I removed the text I posted earlier because I said some harsh things regarding Ai scripting. In case you've read it, my deepest apologies. I'm just very stressed lately and I had a horrible day at work. It just became too much for me.



So the next version of Entropy will be the last? I'll make sure to get Rocky 0.9 in perfect shape then. ;) The main structure of the AI's is done, I mainly have to decide which additional units the AI can choose randomly from for each side when it has enough resources.



Thanks again for everything, Archon_Wing. I would never have been able to do this without your support and kind advice, my friend. And my sincere thanks to everyone else who helped me too.
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JH24
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Postby JH24 » Tue May 26, 2009 6:56 pm

Bajadulce, thank you so much for your kind words. I had already removed my earlier post before I saw you replied to it.


Yeah, AI scripting really is difficult and I realize that too now, even though I promised myself not to do that, I just wanted too many things at the same time from the AI I'm working on. I set expectations real high, only to find out I underestimated the scope and the complexity of AI scripting, as well as the patience and knowledge that were required. I really learned a valuable lesson about that.




Again, I'm sorry for my previous post and my apologies to everyone who read it. I just... snapped and I'm ashamed of it. I'm normally not like that at all. I've been stressed for days but that is no excuse. Your words, Bajadulce, helped me to see things in a better perspective again. It's just... two days ago I spend hours in tweaking the Zerg AI script regarding drones at expansions because they wouldn't build them or pauisng everything until the drones were build. And for some reason I stayed frustrated about that for days in combination with other AI stuff, and it just suddenly all exploded in my previous post.



I enjoy AI scripting, I want to make that clear, but if you have a script were you have to make tiny little changes to everytime because the AI in the replay does not what you want or simply ignores your command then.... Well, I guess I don't have enough patience. Still, I always come back a short while later, there's still something with AI scripting that attracts me, maybe the challenge or perhaps because you can see your own work in action eventually.



Entropy III? That sounds awesome! Merged Ai's? I didn't even know that was possible. I must say I love the concept of an AI that changes scripts during a battle.


I'm looking forward to your PM, Bajadulce. I'm curious what you have in mind, I'm definitely interested.



I'm sorry I haven't checked out your mod yet, I spend so much time obsessing over my AI that I now realize I've been neglecting everyone's else awesome work lately. I'll do my best to catch up soon. Promised!
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Archon_Wing
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Postby Archon_Wing » Tue May 26, 2009 7:24 pm

Isn't BWAPI close to being done though? If that is true, I'm not sure if the effort to update entropy AI is worth it then because it would make script based AIs, at least for melee, to be obsolete. I wouldn't want to draw attention from BWAPI and the purpose of my edit was just to give everyone a diversion in the mean time. I sorta thought I was done here. :lol: Though I have said that a lot of times. I do believe this is about as good as it can get for this kind of AI.

Again, I'm sorry for my previous post and my apologies to everyone who read it. I just... snapped and I'm ashamed of it.


;) I'm actually intrested, as AI scripting isn't exactly the most logical of all things. But anyhow here's what I posted at the end of BWAI WAR III. It's in jest, but some of it really is my opinion.
1.) Pick a map with expansions that have either no chokepoints or very awkward building space. Zerg won't be able to place sunkens properly and you can win easily. (ie, shine, FR biggrin.gif) Oh wait, how did I still lose to CZ despite this? ohmy.gif

2.) Aggressive AIs are better in Ai vs AI war because:
- The comp does not build new structures when under attack, thus delaying its tech. Expanding before attacking is the best way to take advanatage of this
- If they didn't put a wait_build or notowns_jump, you may get their script to reach a part where the delayed tech didn't arrive in time. You'll win by softlock, assuming you don't softlock first.
- If fighting a terran AI, chances are a building scv will be lost in the fight. Since they don't rebuild incomplete buildings, jackpot if it's an important building
- Because the AI must replace units in order to continue in general, keeping their numbers low may not allow them to reach the later parts of their scripts.
- The AI's forces are often randomly placed around their base, thus whoever groups their units fastest together wins. If 2 ais are even, usually who attack prepares first wins.
- The terran AI is often too stupid to repair some buildings.

3.) Dt rush, with a detection block for their detection. Now they could write a detection block for your detection block so this could get endless.

4.) Use guard_resources with a cheap unit. That way you can foil expo attempts. If you use dark templars it'll take the comp ages to expand past their natural.

5.) If you start losing, just crash the game! Do a notowns loop for no main building (cc, nexus, hatch) and send it to a loop without waits. Hey, scripts tend to crash anyways, so you can often do this by accident! You could also use the fatal_error command but it's harder to make excuses about that. Alternatively, you can also make debug messages going "OMG YOU JUST GOT LUCKY", PICK A REAL RACE, or CANT YOU JUST WIN A GAME WITHOUT CHEESING? You may have lost the war, but hey winning the ai vs ai trash talking war may also help.

6.) Remember, your trash talk should resemble the trash talk of your sterotypical players
Thus, terrans must complain about imbalance of the strength of Protoss units (1a2a3a)
Zerg must complain about drops and early rushes from any race.
Protoss must always make excuses about everything. Because you know, the mighty warriors of Aiur are infalliable. (Oh wait, let stubborn values get in the way even if the zerg are destroying your homeworld... yea)

The easiest way to talk trash would be to run the panic block, or place it in your attacks.

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