Ashara AIs

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ashara
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:12 pm

Postby ashara » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:27 pm

Version 1.0 : first complete version of the human AI.


I put the defense commands back.
Give it a try versus 2 random computers for a maximum randomness, I hope you'll enjoy it :D

Some games I have done so far, stupid Terran send marines one by one :(
[attachment=669:Asharav1.0game1.rep][attachment=670:Asharav1.0game2.rep]
[attachment=671:Asharav1.0game3.rep]
IskatuMesk
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 5:57 pm

Postby IskatuMesk » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:27 am

[quote name='ashara' post='3443' date='Apr 5 2008, 06:37 AM']The thing I want to avoid is that when a computer is attacked, its ally build troops to defend and send them stupidly. It's probably better to let the other computer die and make a grouped attack, especially in early game.

I will probably change that for late game though.[/quote]

Experiment with the initial macros. These heavily alter how the AI handles allied defense. Try the start_campaign setup, for example.
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ashara
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:12 pm

Postby ashara » Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:59 pm

Try the start_campaign setup, for example.

Thanks for that one, it did exactly what I wanted on the 2 games I tried.

Do you have any information about the effects of start_areatown, capt_expand, default_min or defaultbuild_off ?
IskatuMesk
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 5:57 pm

Postby IskatuMesk » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:23 am

default_min/defaultbuild_off seem to have to do with how the AI handles building, defense protocols and unit priorities or something but how exactly I am unsure. They do tend to have either dramatic or very little effects depending on the structure of the script. For example, when experimenting with my Battlecruiser Rush terran, changing those could completely cripple it for some reason.
Bhodi
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Postby Bhodi » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:31 pm

Very nice. Your replays show that terran might have too much money and not enough units? The 1st replay (game1) seemed to be terran's best performance with the m&m + tank support I think. Maybe it would have been more effective to keep pressuring with these simple units? Teching to sci-vessels seemed to stall it out. Game 3 seemed especially bad for terran. @ 17 minutes 38 guys all tanks and loads of cash. Your protoss looks great btw.

I think it's great that you are building a non-cheating Ai, but do you have any plans to make a cheating Ai such as Racine or Ahzz's? It's so sad that non Ai's are just so weak. RaynorAi is an awesome non Ai, but it gets almost zero respect from ppl. baja never made a cheating Ai other than his MUAI ones, and you have the talent to do what he doesn't seem interested in. I would really enjoy playing another tuff (but not "gay") 1v1 Ai. And you are one of the best coders here from what I've seen! :)
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ashara
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:12 pm

Postby ashara » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:05 pm

Thanks,

I have no plans to make a 1V1AI for the moment, it's something rather difficult to do well because if there is a relatively short cash loop, it's difficult to control the AI number of units : in case of a player attack, the defense comands will create a large amount of units which the AI wouldn't have if the player didn't attack.

Another solution is to give all the additionnal minerals at the beginning and maybe every 15 minutes, just to give a boost in the AI development. With this the problem is that the AI probably won't be very powerful.

The main problem is the AI micro, a good player will be able to beat an AI using many units by blocking ramps and stuff like that. Winning could be nearly impossible without tricking the AI, I'm not sure this would be really interesting.

A thing a can do though is to make my 1v2 AI more difficult.
For example adapting strategies against enemy races, DT rush against zerg is surprising but not very powerful.
I will probably skip the air part too because computer doesn't use it well.
I can do openings in function of the opponent one - like I did in AIVsAI - meaning a fast expanding will be difficult for player because of AI 6pooling.

Maybe it would have been more effective to keep pressuring with these simple units?

The best strategies are probably really simple ones (like Zerg -> mass hydralisk) but they are not really funny to fight against, I might do 2 difficulty levels and include them in the difficult one.

In this AI I put some randomness because it was quicker than one script per match-up and strategies using more than one or two units because I find it more interesting for people.

Next step will probably be specific AI for each match-up and I will add some fast expanding openings too.

As usual, feel free to give ideas, comments about what I could add next.
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Abaddon
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:19 am

Postby Abaddon » Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:48 pm

Dude, that AI is sick as hell! I love it!
Didn't have much time to test it yet. They are all done with the 0.2 version.
The Zerg/Protoss combo is wicked sick so far. I only managed to rush them.
Building a shitload of defense structures is no real option anymore. It pushes me to be aggressive.
That's really, really nice, man!
I know, my play is not the best, but who cares. I bet you want to see how your breed deals with humans anyway, don't you?
Hehe. ;)
Hope I find the time to check your final version later!
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Abaddon
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Postby Abaddon » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:07 pm

[quote name='ashara' post='3456' date='Apr 8 2008, 09:05 AM']The best strategies are probably really simple ones (like Zerg -> mass hydralisk) but they are not really funny to fight against, I might do 2 difficulty levels and include them in the difficult one.[/quote]

Good idea. That would also prove, if the theory is right.
I mean, those arbiter really pissed me off in a good way as far as I witnessed them. :)
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ashara
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:12 pm

Postby ashara » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:30 pm

I know, my play is not the best, but who cares. I bet you want to see how your breed deals with humans anyway, don't you?

Yeah I really enjoy having people trying that and giving feedback. I think this AI can be good for beginners too, in 1V1 it's probably better than Blizzard AI in some ways. It won't be the same thing each game - I know Blizzard include some random rushes too - but late game is really different in my opinion even if it won't be a match for a decent player.

Thanks for posting these replays, the last one is quite interesting. That's a shame Zerg had so much minerals waiting for mutalisks.
The lone Gateway is funny too :)

Building a shitload of defense structures is no real option anymore. It pushes me to be aggressive.

Aggressive strategies was what I wanted for humans playing against this AI in 1V2, I think it's definitely more interesting and more playerVsplayer like.
Turtling will be good for 1V1 though.

Hope I find the time to check your final version later!

I hope to see that too :)
This version is not final, it's just the first complete one. I plan to do much more things on it, like putting other build orders, maybe funny things like carrier rush...
Bhodi
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Postby Bhodi » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:54 pm

Those are great replays Abaddon. I'm glad to see you won a game too! :P 1v2 non-cheating Ai is a good test.

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