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BroodKiller
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 4:34 pm

Postby BroodKiller » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:29 pm

Here's a replay of a 3v2 game of Shadow, baja and me against the "Team Vs" AI. Long story short - we got owned, but damn we put up an epic fight! The game crashed for Shadow and me near the end, hence us quitting abruptly. I post it for popular entertainment :)
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Spirus
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:35 am

Postby Spirus » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:06 pm

That replay is unbelievable! Thnx for downloading! Holy shit, you guys had some epic micro-skills-battles trying to stay alive. I think if baja had helped you kill that orange comp you might have had a chance, but I guess he was just too busy with red. Red seemed to want to just kill him from the start. He had no chance. Red comp was nuts. :P

That one sequence where you lay down that nuke fighting to hold on to your outpost was epic. ;) I lol'd when Shadow used hallucinate, that was smooth under pressure.

The replay shows lots and lots of those permacloaked units. Wonder what caused Shadow and you to drop? epic game thnx for sharing.
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BroodKiller
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 4:34 pm

Postby BroodKiller » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:17 pm

To tell the truth, it was Shadow who laid the nuke (I didn't have any Moira reactors), and it was me who hallucinated Shadow's units to help him defend his base. Nevertheless, had we coordinated our strikes on Orange, I think we could've won that game, but we joined forces too late to deal some really significant damage. After that, it was basically a crazy fight for survival, when going 6+ stardocks really paid back. It must be said aloud that baja made a really impressive stand against the red all by himself, big kudos to him! It was a really fantastic and 3pic game. :)

As for the crash...I don't know. Maybe it was a resource overflow? But I don't really think so.
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BroodKiller
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Postby BroodKiller » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:55 am

Baja, the "Teams Vs" level is still vulnerable to the early counter-rush. It shouldn't go Laser Turrets but Ions directly, I think, in order to defend against it. Here's a rep from a very short 2v1 game of Shadow and me against it. It speaks for itself, I think. And to be perfectly honest, Shadow would have probably handled it even on his own.
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Spirus
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Postby Spirus » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:18 pm

[quote name='bajadulce' post='35' date='Mar 27 2008, 03:40 PM']Watching these 2 Teamvs. replays it is apparent that the computer is both way too easy in the early part of the game and maybe just a bit too hard in the middle game?[/quote]
This might be the case for the other difficulty levels as well, but I imagine most ppl aren't as aggressive as you guys.
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BroodKiller
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Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 4:34 pm

Postby BroodKiller » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:16 pm

[quote name='bajadulce' post='3348' date='Mar 27 2008, 07:44 AM']Watching these 2 Teamvs. replays it is apparent that the computer is both way too easy in the early part of the game and maybe just a bit too hard in the middle game? The later part of the game (post 35ish minute mark) = fuck it! Bring it on whatever you got![/quote]I agree about the first part, but not completely about the second. In the 3v2 game we played I had at some point 10 running stardocks, and had we managed to hold that outpost in the middle of the map, I am pretty sure we could've won that game. Also, take note that we have yet to play a balanced game, since it should be 4v2 or 2v1, to my mind. My point is, don't nerf the midgame...yet. Actually, if the AI gets to late-game, it may be pretty much over, since it is very hard to compensate for massed Tiamats with superior micro, although I still see the light in the tunnel (Croniades or massed mid-tier army mix).
I would just like to say that I am sort of a masochist when it comes to difficulty levels and I take pleasure in the most serious carnage even if it is lost in the end. I often play games on the highest difficulty level right off the start, just to set the bar very high (even if it turns out that I am not able to cope with it), so please take this into account too.

In the works for v2.0 Insane + Team vs.
* Faster initial base for computer. By the time you get there ION cannons + slightly quicker training flys. (currently all flys are the same train time as player)
I agree about Ions but not about ffs, since it can make the comp early rush simply undefendable. I suggest you leave it the way it is now. We're well trained in the ways of the AI as of now, so we have a different perspective.

* fix the nukes so cpu can use them!
But please, with Embars and not Dracos. Otherwise I am afraid it will be unplayable.

* MORE AAAI MAPS!
True dat.

Also remember the photon-cannon you witnessed in the early betas? :P Photon-cannon unit i.d is still availiable, and it could be made into a cpu mirrored Ion Cannon that sidesteps the buildtime/requirements. If you demand rush-proof Ai's for the insane modes, we can deliver!
Just please, don't turtle the AI too much. 1 or 2 Ions is ALL it needs to deal with the firefly counter-rush. The goal is to make it counter rush-proof, not turtle like crazy. Speaking of it, I think you can a similar counter-counter-rush measure for each difficulty, but simply a little bit later for the lower difficulty levels.

For fun, watch the 3v1 Teamvs. replay that Shadowy, BKiller, and baja played, but watch the replay with the NORMAL mode. It's not the same game, and all 3 players get killed. What is interesting however, is how well the NORMAL computer actually builds in that replay. At the 25 minute mark the computer is amazing. Here is a screenshot of that replay on Normal btw:
Had the AIs played as Normal, they both would probably be dead by the 15 minutes mark ;) It's an interesting idea though, comparing the reps with different difficulty levels.
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BroodKiller
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Postby BroodKiller » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:22 pm

Damn, it isn't good that you can't separate those 2 abilities...If Embars have both, the they are clearly overpowered (they have a strong attack and high HP just by themselves); if Dracos have both, then the AI can nuke-spam the shit out of the player on the higher difficulty levels...Hmm...
I think the best option would probably be to leave it like it is now i.e. without the nukes for the AI at all. If this is not an option, then with an aching heart I would suggest you choose Dracos.
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BroodKiller
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Postby BroodKiller » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:36 am

Baja,any chances for update soon? Do you need some more testing, or what?

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