The PvT project

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Myk
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:56 pm

Re: The PvT project

Postby Myk » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:19 am

Taranok wrote:A few turrets might be nice when you're pushing to maybe absorb damage or even ward off arbiters if there are any. In an expansion or a base I would not get any at all....because they seem quite bad when carrier numbers are above 4. Can always try to deflect any recall tactics, but I doubt that any of the BWAPI AI's use them. I haven't seen BWAI use them, although A_Wing says that it does happen sometimes.

The main problem ZBwaiP is that I can never get it to build probes. I don't think either place_guard or build() was very good for getting probes. It very strange because Terran default behavior seems to have very little problems with probes. Will have to do a little more experimenting.

Yeah if you want I'll put a cheating script up. Probably wouldn't be too hard to make anyways (i heard you just add a give money loop), but I've never actually made a cheating AI.

I tried upwards of 12 turrets in the main to deflect carries and they always get picked off. The AI's building algorithm spreads them way out instead of packing them together where they can be more effective.

Try increasing the priority on the Probes?

Money loops:

Code: Select all

--gimme_cash--
give_money()
wait(2000) # Or however long.
goto(gimme_cash)

Or the slightly more insane variant:

Code: Select all

--gimme_cash--
wait(200)
resources_jump(900, 900, gimme_cash)
give_money()
wait(200)
goto(gimme_cash)

Or adjust the above script to be less insane with longer loops, with maybe a lower mineral check (400-500?) and 0 for the gas check. That way if it already has money then it doesn't just got a big 2000/2000 chunk out of nowhere. Or do something totally different!
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Taranok
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:41 pm

Re: The PvT project

Postby Taranok » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:17 am

Myk I tried increasing priority of probes, up to 255, which i think is the limit that bwailauncher and PyAI let's you use. I read that farms_timing builds pylons at priority 400? would be nice if I could tap into that if that's true :|
If you look at the natural I currently have 255 priority, but it still doesn't build 22 probes. I read that there's an hardcoded limit on workers, but usually I can only get about 14 probes. And I can get Terran to build upwards of 22 SCVs.

If you have a small expansions like on Jade the missile turrets get close enough together to actually work together somewhat.

I'm not sure how hard krasi0 wants it. I assume not something as bad as the Insane AIs we have, but I think even the Premium AIs will pose little threat against BWAPI bots.
krasi0
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:42 pm

Re: The PvT project

Postby krasi0 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:51 am

Taranok, something in between Racine 2.0 and 3.0
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Taranok
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:41 pm

Re: The PvT project

Postby Taranok » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:57 am

here's a quick version:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzuRqPR ... sp=sharing

lemme know if anything is broken or if the difficulty level is off.
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Myk
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:56 pm

Re: The PvT project

Postby Myk » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:54 am

Just for fun, comment out your defensebuild stuff and then check the probe production. There was a definite decrease in SCVs when I tried adding those (defensebuild) to my script.

I think there's a possibility that we're using some of the defensebuild commands wrong, or they're just totally borked.
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Taranok
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Re: The PvT project

Postby Taranok » Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:02 am

I don't use defensebuild. But I did comment out defenseuse, guard_all, default min, place_guard commands, all which had no effect on probe production. However there's something very strange with get_oldpeons, because before with a value of 13, it would only send like 5 probes, but with a value of 10, it would actually send 10.

sigh. I'll see if I get better probes with place_guard. It seems strange, I remember having a lot of problems with way oversaturating bases when I used place_guard in TaranokAI, but in ZBwaiP it didn't seem to build probes anywhere near that extent.

I might look into the "overloading" technique that I think equalizer uses.

Have you noticed that terran AI builds a ton of extra supply depots past 200 limit for supply? it just builds tons of them at expos even when it is fully maxed. very strange, I don't see the benefit of this at all.
krasi0
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:42 pm

Re: The PvT project

Postby krasi0 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:24 pm

Taranok, the cheating AI kicked my bot's butt twice. Might be a little too tough. idk :) Did you test it vs any other AIs?
Reps: https://drive.google.com/?tab=mo&authus ... EswTGxGZ3M
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Taranok
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Re: The PvT project

Postby Taranok » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:04 pm

I only tested it to make sure it worked and that it wasn't as evil as racine v3. If you want I can make it easier though.
It doesn't look like your AI got rolled too hard, it actually had near the same supply (within 10-15) in most engagements. I would suggest getting even fewer vultures once it recognizes carriers, and get more goliaths, that seems to be the main problem. I wouldn't bother getting missile turrets in the main. Expanding slower would probably help you defend better.

It looks like bad CC placement on the 3rd base in one of the reps.

Updated to ZBwaiP 0.6:
3-1 vs Mech v1.2 - pretty much crushed my Mech, although for a really close base race I would check out Python- it comes down to the last building for both players! :lol:
4-0 vs Myk T 1.5

Suggestions for Myk T: expanding less often, and still getting a few vultures even when it detects carriers.
changes:
faster air upgrades
threw out early 3rd gateway to rush to tech faster
makes use of try_townpoint. I can also confirm it is super1's definition, not the one in the AIScript Commands post, that is correct.
earlier 3rd
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Myk
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:56 pm

Re: The PvT project

Postby Myk » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:38 am

Taranok wrote:
Suggestions for Myk T: expanding less often, and still getting a few vultures even when it detects carriers.

I can get some wins in testing, but not doing what I want: 8 fact on 2 base, and a very specific vulture/goliath mix. As long as the first P push fails, T can usually win just because P has sit forever on two bases.

I tried turrets, but they just eat up minerals. 9 Turrets = 675 Minerals!

GG.
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Taranok
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:41 pm

Re: The PvT project

Postby Taranok » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:11 am

Yeah turrets can be a huge waste with the way that the AI places them.

So you're attempting a big tankless 2 base attack right after ZBwaiP attacks? I really don't know how great that will be. It'll take quite a while for the AI to rebuild units after the attack, and by then ZBwaiP will be on 3 bases for at least 2 minutes. But if you were able to attack without the presence of carriers you could be getting something going.

I think I screwed up in telling about the matches mech v1.2. That's what happens when you edit 2 different AIs and then posting tests :|

EDIT: added 0.6 to the main post. sorry about that. also reformatted it so it was simpler.

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