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Re: The PvT project

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:35 pm
by Taranok
Hmmm, yeah it gets Arbiters pretty slow. Arbiters begin to be thrown in once a resource check loop is exited. But it has to wait for Citadel of Adun, and then Templar Archives, until it can build an Arbiter Tribunal. And then an Arbiter takes forever to build too...

Myk how did you get the AI to lay so many spider mines everywhere? Is there some sort trick or does it have something to do with ion thrusters?

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:18 am
by super1
The trick lies in the capt_expand command, as in addition to widening the patrol radius of overlords and observers, it also widens the area where vultures place their spider mines.

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:02 am
by Myk
super1 wrote:The trick lies in the capt_expand command, as in addition to widening the patrol radius of overlords and observers, it also widens the area where vultures place their spider mines.

Hey, this guy is pretty smart! And yeah, that, exactly. :)

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:08 am
by Taranok
Yeah, super1 I assume is superone on the older topics. Thanks for the tip, didn't know it had affect on vultures.

Uploaded v0.5b.
Changes:
expands much slower - added like 2200 to wait time - slow units should expand slowly
fixed some freezing with air weapons
added high templar with storm, however, it doesn't get very many
added a 2 base all in carrier if it detected marine medic - got kinda mad at accel T because it would always kill (even with 6 cannons) :curse:

Stats:
3-1 Myk T - on Python, the buildings really help block zealots from moving. on Byzantium T's train loop broke
4-0 Mech T - fail. I need to reduce the number of vultures built when fighting carriers

MYK you need more factories. 15 minutes it floats like 3000 minerals. You can support like 7 facts on 2 bases.

I'll probably update Mech T after this, if I have time.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that it now gets arbiters as part of its main thread. However now it is very vulnerable in the early game...

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:04 pm
by Myk
Taranok wrote:MYK you need more factories. 15 minutes it floats like 3000 minerals. You can support like 7 facts on 2 bases.

I'll add a few more. :)

Can you please upload the newer replay pack?

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:59 pm
by Taranok
hmm......which replays are you talking about? I already posted the ones I test on here:
broodwarai.com/downloads/mods/taranok/BWAIWarIV+V.zip

I also have some extra replays that may or may not be wanted. I uploaded them in the replay database thread but looks like they got removed.

To be honest I'm finding capt_expand() to be a mixed bag. In early game it is quite useful against large attacks. In late game it tends to just suicide a ton of vultures. It would be useful in moderation. It seems like it only applies to towns (?) so maybe just not have having capt_expand() in later (EDIT:expansion) scripts could do something. dunno.

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:35 pm
by Myk
Taranok wrote:hmm......which replays are you talking about? I already posted the ones I test on here:
broodwarai.com/downloads/mods/taranok/BWAIWarIV+V.zip

I also have some extra replays that may or may not be wanted. I uploaded them in the replay database thread but looks like they got removed.

To be honest I'm finding capt_expand() to be a mixed bag. In early game it is quite useful against large attacks. In late game it tends to just suicide a ton of vultures. It would be useful in moderation. It seems like it only applies to towns (?) so maybe just not have having capt_expand() in later (EDIT:expansion) scripts could do something. dunno.

Those are the ones I wanted! :)
I was getting tired of only seeing Byzantium and Python during testing.

capt_expand is kind of goofy. I don't have the patience to figure out how many times to use it effectively. I just appreciate the mines in the middle of the map.

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:00 am
by Taranok
updated to Mech 1.2!

Hm.... To be honest I think I forgot most of the changes.
- way better at getting defenses after doing fast 3 command centers
- detects fleet beacon more reliably
- did some working with capt_expand()
- added wait_train for vultures so it's less likely that the AI will be spamming vultures when it could be building goliaths
- added 9 turrets to expos when it detects fleet beacon (no joke!)
- more facts at expos
- earlier expo when detecting gas after gateway

current testing:
2-2 zbwaip 0.5b - damn that composition is really tough to beat with how bad goliaths are
wins on jade, icarus, losses on python, byzantium
ZBwaiP was the AI I most wanted to work on against. It was by far the most deadly versus this AI. And it shows. 2-2 is not a desirable win rate imo. It seems to depend mostly on the first attack by the P AI. If it does just enough damage the AI loses. However it the T is able to clean up within a minute or so it's fine.

It would probably win if I tweaked expansion timing a little. I'd prefer not to do it, but it actually could make it better against all the P AI's anyways.

explanation on some of the changes, if you care to read:[spoiler]capt_expand() is only used in the natural. this is probably the best. I haven't had as many problems with dead vultures every 2 seconds.

9 turrets: may not actually help. the nice thing is that it messes up opponent pathing. interestingly enough I haven't had any pathing problems with so many turrets.[/spoiler]I'm still trying to think of ways to improve TvP late game. Will either have to make BC's or ghosts, as I'm not sure the current composition will work. hmmm........

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:30 am
by krasi0
Do you think turrets (at small numbers) are at all useful against carriers or are they just a waste of minerals and worker time?
BTW I hope you work more on the Protoss AI (ZBwaiP) as it has more potential. Why not make also a Pro (cheating version) based on that, too?

Re: The PvT project

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:33 pm
by Taranok
A few turrets might be nice when you're pushing to maybe absorb damage or even ward off arbiters if there are any. In an expansion or a base I would not get any at all....because they seem quite bad when carrier numbers are above 4. Can always try to deflect any recall tactics, but I doubt that any of the BWAPI AI's use them. I haven't seen BWAI use them, although A_Wing says that it does happen sometimes.

The main problem ZBwaiP is that I can never get it to build probes. I don't think either place_guard or build() was very good for getting probes. It very strange because Terran default behavior seems to have very little problems with probes. Will have to do a little more experimenting.

Yeah if you want I'll put a cheating script up. Probably wouldn't be too hard to make anyways (i heard you just add a give money loop), but I've never actually made a cheating AI.