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forum.starcraftai.com • Brood war question
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Brood war question

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:43 am
by abcdefg
I was curious how many possible states are in a game of brood war in comparison to other games such as chess, go, and poker? In terms of complexity how does brood war stack up to other games like go is go a more complex game to solve?

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:34 pm
by krasi0
24 * <game length in seconds>
[quote name='abcdefg' date='21 April 2012 - 06:43 AM' timestamp='1334983407' post='10877']
I was curious how many possible states are in a game of brood war in comparison to other games such as chess, go, and poker? In terms of complexity how does brood war stack up to other games like go is go a more complex game to solve?
[/quote]

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:42 am
by abcdefg
[quote name='krasi0' date='21 April 2012 - 08:34 AM' timestamp='1335026097' post='10878']
24 * <game length in seconds>
[quote name='abcdefg' date='21 April 2012 - 06:43 AM' timestamp='1334983407' post='10877']
I was curious how many possible states are in a game of brood war in comparison to other games such as chess, go, and poker? In terms of complexity how does brood war stack up to other games like go is go a more complex game to solve?
[/quote]
[/quote]

That does not seem to right me, but Im not really sure how you would figure that out though. Wikipedia says chess is log of 47 and inverse of that would be 10^47 power game states in chess. Brood war would seems like it would be larger then that, but I have no clue how you figure that out or what it would be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_complexity

Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:35 am
by Kae
[quote name='abcdefg' date='26 April 2012 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1335400934' post='10887']
[quote name='krasi0' date='21 April 2012 - 08:34 AM' timestamp='1335026097' post='10878']
24 * <game length in seconds>
[quote name='abcdefg' date='21 April 2012 - 06:43 AM' timestamp='1334983407' post='10877']
I was curious how many possible states are in a game of brood war in comparison to other games such as chess, go, and poker? In terms of complexity how does brood war stack up to other games like go is go a more complex game to solve?
[/quote]
[/quote]

That does not seem to right me, but Im not really sure how you would figure that out though. Wikipedia says chess is log of 47 and inverse of that would be 10^47 power game states in chess. Brood war would seems like it would be larger then that, but I have no clue how you figure that out or what it would be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_complexity
[/quote]

It's difficult to answer, and of course it depends of the map. Ben Weber (EISBot) had approximate the number of configurations to be in O(10^21,000,000), even if this bound is arguable. Anyway, the configuration space is way way higher than for Chess or Go.

Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:10 am
by abcdefg
Ah okay thanks. Recently I think IBM used super computer to win at jeopardy against humans but it seems like making an AI that could beat flash or jaedong at brood war would be a feat of nearly the same magnitude.

Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:37 am
by Kae
I mostly agree, and the reason we have nowadays Watson and still waiting for an artificial Flash is that there are many more people working on natural language processing than on AI applied to RTS.
However, I think it just a question of time. ^^

Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:11 pm
by krasi0
abcdefg, sorry, I didn't get what exactly you asked the first time...
Kae, talking about working on RTS AI, where is Aiur v2? :)

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 5:47 am
by Kae
[quote name='krasi0' date='03 May 2012 - 01:11 AM' timestamp='1335975082' post='10893']
Kae, talking about working on RTS AI, where is Aiur v2? :)
[/quote]

It's under progress. :-) I have been (and still) really really busy, so I don't have much time to work on Aiur, but I have great hopes to send you soon (more or less) a new version. Now Aiur deals with zerg rush, but remains weak against UAlberta's zealot rush. When it is done, I send it to you right away!