Bots that can handle campaign

Anything related on how to build / improve your AI using BWAPI, BWTA, BWSAL, etc.
heavy_metal
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:38 pm

Bots that can handle campaign

Postby heavy_metal » Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:17 pm

Bots tested:

Krasi0 v2.17 - BWTA crashes on first T mission.
- Beat T4 Assault on Korhal, 182621 score, 34:23 time.

Skynet v2.1 - Suicides all units on first 2 missions, then crashes on 3rd mission with base.
- Lost P1 Escape from Auir: Suicides hero.
- Lost P2 Dunes of Shakuras: Fails to construct base, suicides workers.
- Crash P3 Legacy of the Xel'Naga: Crashes almost immediately, map analysis?
- Lost P4 The Quest for Uraj: Fails to construct base, suicides workers and hero.
- Lost P5 The Battle of Braxis: Fail to use Shuttles, suicides hero.
- Lost P6 Return to Char, zealot army gets stuck in narrow passage, base destroyed by mutas.
- Lost P7 The Insurgent: keeps sending scout probes that get picked off, does not use DA effectively, never spends resources, gets slaughtered attacking up cliff, suicides hero.
- Crash P8 The Countdown: Crash few seconds in during map analysis, when screen is still frozen.
Score: -2 (0 for wins, -2 for crashes)

I'm looking for bots that are able to handle playing campaign missions. It's a different than 1v1, and to do well, a bot would need to have more general reasoning capability. In 1v1 all a bot needs to do is execute a build order perfectly, then attack-move into the enemy base. I'm oversimplifying, but this is the reality of 99% of the bots out there.

Campaign bots need better micro. In missions with heroes, the bot doesn't necessarily have to recognize the special unit and protect it, because with optimal micro, it should spread the damage around so that it loses no units until they all are at red hp.

Another example is in P mission 2, starting with no Nexus but 4 probes and 500 minerals. A human player would recognize the ability to build a Nexus, and construct one at the next mineral patch. Skynet on the other hand, suicides its probes into the nearest sunken.
abcdefg
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:37 am

Postby abcdefg » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:19 pm

That would be cool but why have a bot play through the campaign missions? I would argue that 1v1 is not as simple as executing 1 build order perfectly and attack moving to enemy base. I promise you if you played Jaedong 5 games in a row doing that he would eat you for breakfast but maybe against a bad player in 1 game that would work. The thing is if the other player does the counter build order and executes perfectly then he can stop your perfectly executed attack so then you need to adapt. Its not that simple which is why koreans played the game for money 15 years later its a deep game with not just 1 perfect build order per race. Although the game has been pretty well figured out over the years.
heavy_metal
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:38 pm

Postby heavy_metal » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:28 am

You are correct that 1v1 is a deep game. However that is not the case with the current crop of bots. They do exactly as I describe since most are based off build scripts. The ones that aren't do poorly in AI competitions because their openings aren't as well-tuned. If you saw the man vs machine matches, the human player simply defended against the AI opening rush, and the game was rapidly over since the AI could not react in time to the human's counterattacks.

You can take a top ranking Korean pro and ask him to beat a single player mission for you and it will be cake. On the other hand, many bots struggle to beat a single mission. Missions expose bots to conditions they would rarely face in 1v1. I am simply arguing that campaign performance is evidence of more generalized intelligence than a bot that simply is the best at 1v1 against other bots. A new ranking system could take into account bots' campaign mission performance along with their competition rank.

On a separate note, bot krasi0 managed to beat Terran mission 4, Assault on Korhal. This game exposes weaknesses that might have taken many 1v1 trials to uncover. I'll list the important ones so that Krasi can fix them.

- builds bunker only at one entrance to base ( there are 4 in this mission )
- when attacking, leaves base defenseless and doesn't come back to defend when attacked.
- attacks enemy base first closest by straight line, not by walk path
- lag spikes late game with 170+ supply
- Pulls out when enemy base is mostly destroyed instead of finishing it.
- Troops get stuck trying to move through mineral line. Probably should avoid pathing through SCV's.
- More economic play needed - grab more resources! In late game it gets mined out and does not expand again.
abcdefg
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:37 am

Postby abcdefg » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:08 am

Oh yeah I mean I basically agree with you. The bots play a pretty low level right now and the campaign is well beyond their abilities too since a lot of the same skills in 1v1 need to be used in the campaign like you said.
User avatar
Taranok
Posts: 256
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:41 pm

Postby Taranok » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:39 am

I think the programmers spend too much time on the micro. It's the most eyecatching part, but really not important when you could just go with a solid strategy.
krasi0
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:42 pm

Postby krasi0 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:51 pm

I generally agree with your points. The current state of BW AI is far from what's considered "Strong AI".
The game is quite complex for bots, the search space is huge, good decisions are almost never obvious, etc... That's what most bots lack ATM. But this is why we're still struggling to get the best of AI :)
Any well grounded ideas are appreciated :P

P.S. thanks for the feedback. Some points are easier to fix than others. You gotta see my TODO list of over 100 points remaining... :P

[quote name='heavy_metal' date='20 September 2012 - 04:28 AM' timestamp='1348104532' post='11128']
You are correct that 1v1 is a deep game. However that is not the case with the current crop of bots. They do ...
[/quote]
krasi0
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:42 pm

Postby krasi0 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:53 pm

BTW I think it was bugking (sometimes lurking in this forum) who once made a bot that could complete the Terran missions.
heavy_metal
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:38 pm

Postby heavy_metal » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:53 pm

Finished testing Skynet on campaign mode. See first post for details, in summary it manages to crash 2 missions and does not manage to win a single mission. Granted, 4 out of the 6 missions it did not crash on involved heros, but it still did not manage to do well on P6, the only drawn-out game due to the presence of a starting base and no hero.

My impressions:
Skynet's combat logic needs some work - it gets massacred when attacking up cliffs. It advances its troops, starts withdrawing and gets shot, then advances again without attacking.

Skynet does not know how to use Dark Archons or Shuttles.

Scouting needs work - if a probe scout just gets picked off by Photon Cannons, Skynet just keeps sending more, never altering their route, or send air scouts, or clear the static defenses.

While the map analysis compatibility and processing time are superior to BWTA, it still crashes on 2/8 of the missions. It also completely lags the game for a few seconds at start - wouldn't that mean instant game loss according to the newer AI competition rules? Actually, I think AIIDE accounted for this by having the 2 frames for 10 seconds allowance.

I am open to suggestions of any bots you think would do well in campaign missions. I am going to test them and come up with a score for each one.
krasi0
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:42 pm

Postby krasi0 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:21 pm

[quote name='heavy_metal' date='26 September 2012 - 07:53 PM' timestamp='1348678425' post='11161']
I am open to suggestions of any bots you think would do well in campaign missions. I am going to test them and come up with a score for each one.
[/quote]
The bot you will create for that purpose? :)
heavy_metal
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:38 pm

Postby heavy_metal » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:49 pm

I think it might be easier to start off making a bot to complete some of the missions, as the campaign AI is not as aggressive.

Return to “AI development (BWAPI Bots)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest