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forum.starcraftai.com • 2012 AIIDE semi-live results
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2012 AIIDE semi-live results

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:11 am
by Kae
Hi guys,

2012 AIIDE tournament has started! You can find results in (semi-)live here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... xcUE#gid=0

It should be updated at least once per day during this 4-day tournament.

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:49 am
by abcdefg
Im interested in just having a good opponent to play against in this game since not a lot of people play it anymore. I also like AI although I am not good at programming it with hard it is.
I was kind of sad to see majority protoss bots and only a few terrans and one zerg. I would like to see more zerg bots since I have played BTHAI and its good but it mainly follows scripts which are not going to win games at a high level in the long run this game is just too complicated for that. I think July zerg once said he thought zerg was the most powerful race with the most potential but just no one was fast enough to control them well enough. I would like to see a bot like the overmind try to show us how good zerg can be.
A few of these bots I have never heard of, but my money if I placed a bet would be the ualbertabot is going to place number 1 this year.

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:30 am
by Taranok
What are the races for each bots? I only recognize a few of them.

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:24 am
by Kae
The list of competitors, with races: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nA2bEdFR2c


[quote name='abcdefg' date='22 August 2012 - 12:49 PM' timestamp='1345607343' post='11052']
Im interested in just having a good opponent to play against in this game since not a lot of people play it anymore. I also like AI although I am not good at programming it with hard it is.
I was kind of sad to see majority protoss bots and only a few terrans and one zerg. I would like to see more zerg bots since I have played BTHAI and its good but it mainly follows scripts which are not going to win games at a high level in the long run this game is just too complicated for that.
[/quote]

I agree, there are too few Terrans and Zerg. I don't know why,but I do not believe the argument "because Protoss are easier to manage". I may be wrong, but I think most of competitors chose a race without knowing if it will be easier or harder to code.

Unfortunately all bots have scripted behaviors so far, and it will take some time to go beyond this point.


[quote name='abcdefg' date='22 August 2012 - 12:49 PM' timestamp='1345607343' post='11052']
I think July zerg once said he thought zerg was the most powerful race with the most potential but just no one was fast enough to control them well enough. I would like to see a bot like the overmind try to show us how good zerg can be.
[/quote]

Indeed, if a bot can micro-manage each individual Zerg unit, it could be devastating. However I am convinced that micro is really less important than macro for a bot at the current level. Look at replays from krasi0's ladder, and you will see that most of the time, the winning bot is the one with the best macro.

From my point of view, Overmind was not a good AI. Actually I start this project (AIUR) after seeing results of the 2010 AIIDE competition. I was very excited when I heart about this tournament, but very disappointed by the winner which always applied the same strategy.


[quote name='abcdefg' date='22 August 2012 - 12:49 PM' timestamp='1345607343' post='11052']
A few of these bots I have never heard of, but my money if I placed a bet would be the ualbertabot is going to place number 1 this year.
[/quote]

Despite AdjudentBot and SCAIL, all other bots participated to 2011 AIIDE and/or CIG competitions. Let see for UAlbertaBot, but I won't bet on it. :-)

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:00 am
by Equalizer
I wonder if allowing the bots to carry information from one game to the next and know who they're playing against would help discourage hard-coded behaviour (since it would be predictable and an adapting bot would be able to possibly exploit this).

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:54 am
by krasi0
[quote name='Equalizer' date='24 August 2012 - 09:00 AM' timestamp='1345788022' post='11055']
I wonder if allowing the bots to carry information from one game to the next and know who they're playing against would help discourage hard-coded behaviour (since it would be predictable and an adapting bot would be able to possibly exploit this).
[/quote]
Such I/O is supported for this competition. Oddly looking at the win % graphs Skynet which doesn't incorporate it (ML) has an increasing number of wins with time while with UAlbertaBot and Aiur it decreases a little with time.
It might have smth to do with Skynet randomizing its strategies over different games. Let's hope a thorough investigation after the competition will reveal the mystery.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:48 pm
by Laccolith
Unless Skynets IO has started working now, because it is implemented, it just wasn't working in the tournament setup when the competition started.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:58 pm
by krasi0
[quote name='Laccolith' date='24 August 2012 - 03:48 PM' timestamp='1345812487' post='11058']
Unless Skynets IO has started working now, because it is implemented, it just wasn't working in the tournament setup when the competition started.
[/quote]
Ah, I see. You could ask Dave if there are any files generated.

Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:40 pm
by abcdefg
If the bot spots a pattern in another bot can the bot actually take advantage of that? There is a lot of variation in games even if the opposing bot is doing the same opening build.
Can bots deal with things like say I put a pylon at its expansion site or say I throw up a quick bunker at the bottom of its ramp with a few scvs to repair like a quick contain? It seems to me a bot that just cheeses would have more success then a bot that tries to play a real game at least for now. The goal of the competition isnt to just out cheese another bot but it seems it would work really well right now much like the beginning of starcraft 2 where cheese was OP until it was figured out.
Are any of the replays up to watch or anything?

Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:09 am
by Equalizer
I vaguely remember that in previous iterations of this competition gas steal and scout worker harass would effectively kill some bots. These I assume are resolved but I don't know how well they can handle other cheese like play.

However, I think that a lot of what are considered cheese plays are also hard for an attacking bot to execute since they generally require very good control of a small number of units. Even bunker containing as you mentioned I think would be quite a challenge for a bot to execute well (knowing when to hold and when to run).